What the TRUTH!
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Thank you very much.
How's everyone doing today?
Thanks for joining us on Series XM on the live stream on Road Dog Truck in Channel 146 YouTube.
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I'm Dooner.
This is my show.
Best headline.
Best headline I saw today on Freightways.
Little Gremlins going on here.
Show these dogs.
On Freightways .com, go check it out.
Truckers attest to the stressed, busting power of pets on the road.
We got those pets.
They're coming right now.
Thank you very much.
So I need a midweek lift up, Brindley Heimland.
This is my favorite story this morning.
There's probably more important ones.
But we always got to feature the road dogs on here.
And now there's some good reports out there about the stress relieving nature of these puppies.
Take Stephanie Diamond, for example.
She lives on the road full time with her three cats, Bella Scout and Ranger.
The feel I'm true or she says they thrive on the road.
Bella, especially, she's rescued from drowning in a rain gutter in Nevada when she was only four or five weeks old.
Scout is a house manager.
Diamond said it won't hesitate to cry out if water is too low.
The litter box is too smelly or there's too much traffic.
They got them on Craigslist.
The National Institute of Health.
They found out that interacting with animals decreases stress hormones and lowers blood pressure.
The sedentary lifestyle with drivers to can help get a move and bring your dog out there.
Having two dogs on the truck gives Elizabeth Sandborn and Dave LePierre motivation to be active when they're not driving.
Porsche is their 16 year old mud and buttercup is a two year old mixed breed.
They receive daily walks to spruce things up.
They said if you're out on the road for three to four weeks at a time, you don't have an animal or another person.
I can only imagine the black void of thoughts that must go through someone said, you know, one commenter though, they said one of the issues with bringing pets on the road isn't always the carriers is just insurance.
And it's a progressive is one of the only companies that provides insurance for truck drivers to bring their dogs on the road with them.
But what the truck gear .com free shirt from there.
All you drivers out there send me your dog.
Some of you already have two truckers in a lady.
They sent me shredder and cinnamon.
They're on down here.
Justin Stewart sent to be a truck dog.
All mine does is sleep LOL beautiful little puppy right there.
And Michael Fitzgerald says I had two drivers obtained prescriptions from their mental health providers for emotional support dogs in both cases.
The drivers mental health mood control anger management over all demeanor and prove noticeably again articles up on freightways .com.
Send me pictures of your dogs on social media at Timothy Duner on Twitter.
You can find me on LinkedIn or you can email me at tduner at freightways .com.
One of you all send a shirt to whoever whoever dog I'll do it random.
I'm not going to pick whoever is the best dog.
We'll send it out to at random.
All right, let's get into the show today is episode 723 of What the Truck.
And on it, I'm talking about the great scene shortage of 2024.
One company supply chain crisis is another competitive advantage.
Today we'll meet a fascinating gentleman from Lucy co -founder John Cougan, whose lip nicotine brand is making waves and delivery trucks.
Actually, he sent me this and you might have seen that pouch fall out.
The entire back here of this like little delivery van is filled with a little Lucy pouches.
Pretty cool.
Got a need for speed.
So do NASCAR drivers.
We're going to talk to a NASCAR driver or holler Joe Anderson about how that all works.
Get in the car.
So try getting them back.
What that life is like for a driver.
And then dumb trucks are going green.
Highs on in new way trucks.
They've partnered on a hydrogen garbage truck.
We're going to find out how the refuse truck works, what the deal is, what you get out with hydrogen and transitioning to that and what's going on.
So let's tip the band and we'll get into it.
Chevron Renewable Energy Group provides high quality liquid at renewable fuels to help power the lower carbon energy journey as experts in go to market agility.
Lower carbon solutions and strategic partnerships let us help drive value for your business.
Visit rgi .com to learn more.
Speaking of stress relief, let's talk to John Cougan co -founder of Lucy.
I met this gentleman because I was in a stressful situation.
John, there was that news of lip nicotine supply chain crisis.
And then like a savior in the night.
You just appeared.
Yeah, it's a disaster.
It's been it's been a crazy couple months of the zin shortage.
But yeah, I mean, we're here.
We're trying to take advantage.
We're trying to get keep the supply chain flowing.
Whatever we can do to help.
For people who don't know, you have a pretty fascinating background.
Not only have you been with this the Lucy nicotine, which isn't like overnight.
I was looking it up.
You guys have been around since 2016, even though the popularity of this stuff kind of blew up last year.
You've been around for a while.
You're also with founders fund.
You also you have a massive YouTube channel.
I was watching your the business of Grand Theft Auto about an hour ago on there.
You have almost 500 ,000 subscribers.
Plenty of videos with over a million views.
Yeah, yeah, thank you.
Yeah, YouTube's a lot of fun.
I love content.
I love talking to people.
It's just a yeah, it's a fun way to get some stuff out there.
But yeah, I mean, Lucy's been a really long journey.
We've been in this business for eight years.
We actually launched the company and then found out that zin even existed because zin launched in 2014, but it was really, really tiny back then.
And then yeah, this year has just been a complete turning point for the entire category.
Everyone kind of woke up.
And that's for a few reasons.
I mean, obviously, vapes have never been less popular.
There's been a ton of political pressure to, you know, shut down vapes.
There's all the jewel news and, you know, the bands, which actually just got overturned.
So jewels, you know, back in review with the FDA. But I think in the in the big gap, there was a huge window of opportunity where zin and other kind of oral products slotted in for all those vape products.
And now there's a whole ecosystem of people that promote these things.
They make merch and there's whole YouTube channels out there probably as big as mine that just talk about, you know, zin and oral nicotine products.
There's a whole genre of like zin and lip mic memes about freight brokers that goes on.
And in my industry, first, it was like March of 2023.
I remember I was reading this article and it was as the baseball season was starting and it was talking about tobacco and nicotine and baseball.
And it was talking about how all the players had switched to lip nicotine.
And I think like a lot of people at first, I was like, I was looking for, you know, I used to smoke.
I switched the vape so I was trying to get off the vape because again, you're inhaling stuff.
You have no idea what it is.
I wish there was like a better method.
Shot in the dark.
I just gave it a try.
And I was expecting like you to have to spit and it to be like your traditional dip thing.
But the ultimate killer power of this stuff is that it's so discrete.
I have one writing right now.
I do most shows.
Nobody knows.
Me too.
Yeah, yeah, no, no.
It really is what I think of is just like the final form for the category.
I think that vapes, they were a really great step forward.
Obviously they're better than smoking in most cases.
Unless it's some crazy, you know, Chinese thing that's made in, you know, someone's basem*nt.
But if they're just, you know, reasonable and you're at least you're not inhaling fire, probably better for you.
But, you know, we have the data.
We've seen how people use these products in Sweden.
We've seen how, you know, all the different oral products have been used for decades.
And it just seems like this is the final form.
And so yeah, that's why when we started the company in 2016, we bet really big on oral products specifically.
And we started with gum, we launched Los Angeles, we have pouches, and then we also have breakers which have a capsule inside.
And so we've just been really, really focused on this because we think that there's nothing really coming down the pipe that's going to be better than this category.
And so eventually all the smokers in the world are going to switch over to these products.
And there's just going to be this huge land grab.
And Zinn had been taking a lot of the market share, but now they're on their back foot.
So that's why I'm here.
Yeah, I mean, like jewel, for example, I remember when like jewels first started getting popular.
And I was, with those I was trevidacious at first because like blue had come in some other brands and they were really lame.
Like they did not work at well.
And if you were an actual smoker, it's just an, and like jewel kind of cracked the code.
And like with nicotine salt and you're like, wait, that is a really like, okay, it's hidden how it needs to hit.
It's keeping the cravings away.
And that was my concern with these.
And then I got these, the Lucy, the breakers, whatever, or the Zinn.
And I tried it and I was like, it works.
Like it hits that delivery.
Now you don't obviously get the habit of like inhaling, but there's almost a social aspect of it too.
That I think was missing with like, like you guys also have gum.
Let me ask you a question.
Like Nicarite gum, your type, but why has it always been so hard for that category to sort of take off as more of like a, I don't want to say a lifestyle product, but you know, like something people talk about and show each other.
Yeah, no, you're 100 % right.
It's, it is really hard.
And there's a, there's a very clear reason.
It's because you don't use the gum, the nicotine gum like you use normal gum.
So when you use nicotine gum, you actually have to pack it like it's a Zinn or a Lucy nicotine pouch.
You have to chew it a little bit until it gets soft.
And then you have to just let it sit there.
If you just chew it, chew it, chew it, you're going to wind up swallowing a lot of the nicotine.
You'll get a harshness in the back of your throat.
And it just kind of won't work.
And so you have this educational step where you have to explain to someone who's normally just chewed rigly.
Hey, this is a little bit different.
And that's really, really hard to communicate in the size of a little package.
And so it's a, it's a huge, it's a huge issue.
And it's never really gotten through.
Whereas if you open up a can of pouches, it's like, it's kind of hard to use this wrong.
You know, maybe you could try and bite it.
I do hear some people say, oh, are you supposed to swallow them?
But that's really easy to say, no, just spit it out when you're done.
As opposed to there's, there's an existing pattern of behavior with, with regular gum.
And we need to kind of break that habit or else you'll have a bad experience.
And then my other belief is that the traditional nicotine gums are underpowered.
So they sell a two milligram and a four milligram at Nicarat.
At Lucy, we sell two, four and six milligram.
And I think six milligram is, is honestly what most smokers need.
And, and obviously you've seen with like, you know, zins and pouches, four milligram is kind of like the low end.
But, so Nicarats never really gone, at least in the United States, they've never really gone into the strengths that, you know, heavy smokers really like if they're switching.
So I think it's kind of those two main things.
Yeah, no, that makes sense to me.
So like, what's the story behind the Lucy brain?
You said you didn't even know about zin.
If you've been over, like, if you've been overseas to Sweden or Europe, these types of products are much more popular.
Is that where you were?
Where you're like, oh, wait, the snuffs kind of thing works.
We weren't in Sweden, but my two co -founders are scientists and had studied nicotine in the brain and the nicotinic receptor.
And they kind of understood that nicotine, while it's addictive, is not a carcinogen.
And it wasn't the principal agent of harm in cigarettes.
It was the burning ash that you're inhaling.
And so they realized that, hey, nicotine, when ingested in these alternative forms, could really, really help people.
And so, you know, he was, my co -founder was a bit of a hypochondriac, a little bit worried about all the chemicals and the vapes.
Wasn't really sure what he was going to be breathing in there.
Didn't really like nicorette and wanted to create something better.
It's kind of just the classic startup story.
We also had a previous business selling protein shakes online and kind of had some experience in consumer packaged goods.
And so we wanted to be able to leverage that, but go into just a better industry with, you know, better economics and just a more disruptive product, basically.
You know, it's funny because everyone who is making the vapes, they like dialed so hard on technology and you're going to plug this thing in and you got to carry this thing.
And that actually created a lot of problems.
You got leaky pods, you got batteries that were incredibly inconsistent.
And you got draws that were inconsistent.
And you're like, oh, what if we just use some paint because all this, like, what is this?
What's inside, like, what's inside this mango one?
This is 12 milligrams, by the way.
You guys are really in the arms.
Yeah, yeah.
That one has a lot of, that one does have a lot of nicotine in it.
But I mean, the ingredients are pretty simple.
I like to think like making anything is kind of just like if you've ever cooked food or like our gum is made basically the exact same way you make pasta.
You make a big dough ball of gum and then you put it through an extruder and it squeezes it out and you chop it up and then you coat it and that's it.
And for these, it's very similar.
You know, you take all the ingredients, you put them in a big blender and then they're dropped from a hopper into the individual packets, which are sealed.
And inside it's, it's basically just nicotine, food grade flavors, food grade ingredients.
There's a couple of pH stabilizers because your mouth needs to be, it can't be too acidic.
Or else you won't absorb the nicotine.
That's why you can't make like a nicotine energy drink.
You know, that would be kind of obvious.
Someone would have come up with like a nicotine beer or nicotine.
You know, they have CBD beers and THC beers now.
But you can't absorb it in your stomach.
So you need to, you need to balance out the pH in your mouth a little bit.
And then the actual like core, like bulking agent in there is just cellulose, which is kind of just ground up wood pulp essentially.
It sounds a little bit crazy, but it's ground so fine that it's basically just like dust.
And that's why when you finish the pouch, it still has some like mass to it.
You know, you spit them out and there's still something there.
That's because everything is kind of wrapped in this cellulose that is just basically just chopped up wood, which is very funny, but it works really well.
Well, you know, anybody who's who got like who their entry into this was something like zin.
If you've been a regular user, you've probably noticed this recently, especially if you go on their website.
They've had a lot of issues with their supply chain.
There's actually this headline from June 10th that says zin shortages.
You guys got that zin shortages continue, but the popular nicotine pouches will be back on more shells later this year.
And executive says there's CFO. He says, yeah, and you know, part of its that incredible rise, right?
I think they sold 80 % more units in the past year than they had prior.
And that amounts to something like 500.
I think they're projecting 560 million cans this year.
And just like any type of demand shock, it takes a lot to get prepared for, but has a rising tide lifted all boats is this helping you out too?
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, I mean, we're we're expanding into a ton of retail stores right now.
We started online, but retail's been a huge growth driver for the business.
There's a few other things that is that are interesting about the zin shortage.
Because in theory, you should be able to absorb an 80 % bump, even though that's huge, you should be able to run your factory and two shifts instead of one.
So something else was going on there.
There are rumors that they had a problem at a factory.
There hasn't been any sort of like recall or quality issue.
But it is possible that something like went offline because it doesn't feel like the supply just flat line, which you would expect if they just hit a capacity barrier, it's actually gone down.
And now the zin team seems to be preferentially distributing to specific companies and chains.
And so that's created a lot of opportunity for us to slot into some of the smaller groups, the bodegas, the corner stores, the gas stations, and really like fit in and then introduce our product to people.
And I think we come in with a really strong offer, our products, the same price or cheaper, and it's usually stronger.
And then our breaker capsule actually has a capsule inside that makes the past more moist.
And the number one complaint about other nicotine pouches is that they're too dry.
They dry your mouth out.
And so we've solved that, and then we have a bunch of cool flavors and stuff.
So there's just a lot of things that I think when we're in the right place, we can win in a head -to -head competition, but we got to be there.
And so this has just been a perfect opportunity for us.
It has been a perfect opportunity.
And thank you very much for sending me sort of the care package.
I got to, I got my first introduction.
I was definitely a big fan of the mango and the 12 milligrams.
I obviously want to try it first.
I like the breakers lot.
I think you guys kind of nailed it with that pill.
And I know what you're talking about.
Sometimes these can get kind of dry, especially like the zin is a good product, but it can get kind of dry.
And if your mouth is kind of dry, you definitely, you definitely feel the breakers kind of solve that.
The only one I was a little sketch on, and this is because I just don't like a lot of mint flavors was like the mint regular.
That was not, that was not the favorite one.
So we have a few different mint flavors.
There's a winner green and a spear mint.
You might like the other mint flavor.
And then we also have an apple ice flavor that's kind of minty.
There's a little bit of mint flavoring and a bunch of different things.
So I'll send you some more and you can try the other mint flavors and see what you think.
Let me ask you something.
So I kind of alluded to the arms were that's going on.
We have, you know, there's, we've seen products that are two milligrams, four milligrams, six milligrams, eight milligrams on these breakers.
And we go all the way up to 12 with this is there.
First of all, like what is a safe amount of nicotine to take?
And is there like any regulation that limits the amount you can put in here?
Yeah, so the FDA is reviewing all of these products and they ultimately make the decision on what can be on the market or not right now.
They're still working through a lot of applications, but all of our products are compliant with the FDA and, you know, we're working with the FDA to get everything fully approved.
It's just like, you know, Zinn and all the other, all the other products in the space are in terms of in terms of kind of maximum nicotine tolerance.
I don't have an exact figure.
I don't know that there's exactly a scientific consensus.
It really is just dependent on the tolerance.
And so, you know, if you think about, you know, a heavy smoker who's smoking 10, 20, 30 cigarettes a day, a 12 milligram pouch is going to deliver something that's as strong as that, you know, that first cigarette and it's really, really going to help them.
Get that like satisfaction.
I think it's very similar to when jewel introduced the salts and you could actually see a very, very binary change in perception from before I was using these vapes and they weren't really, they weren't really hitting me and now they are that's really important.
That's where we want to be for the for the customer.
Interesting.
And how does it for those that don't know?
So you mentioned it like it doesn't go in your stomach.
It goes in your lip.
What is happening?
It absorbs in.
It's just going right through your bloodstream that way.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It literally just goes through the lining in your mouth into your bloodstream into your brain stimulates the nicotine receptor, which is a receptor in the brain that stimulates alertness, all the wakefulness, all the different concentration focus, all the things that we know from from nicotine users.
And I mean, it's a very, very well understood pathway.
Humans kind of co evolved with tobacco plants for generations.
I mean, humans have been using tobacco broadly for thousands of years.
It was only in the turn of the century, like 1910 to 1960 that we were really, really in trouble because we invented the cigarette rolling machine and all of a sudden instead of needing to go and grab a whole bunch of leaves and hand roll a cigar.
And it was maybe a luxury thing or something, something celebratory.
It became something that you could just chain smoke all day long.
You're breathing in so many toxic chemicals, so much fire basically all day long that we saw lung cancer rates skyrocket.
And now cigarettes kill 50 % of people who use them over their entire life.
It's like the most deadly product.
More people died from smoking during COVID than of COVID, which is crazy.
Half a million people in 2020 and 2021.
And fortunately, we have the Swedish example, because like you said, in Sweden, all these, they're basically their entire, their entire society switched to oral products and they've seen massive declines in lung cancer rates.
Of course, because they're not smoking.
Yeah, we used to see there, there's all those like viral videos during COVID that would go like people trying to smoke like through smoke cigarettes because they're mad.
Of the addition, no, I agree with you.
And I think regulators need to look towards Sweden when they inevitably come after this product because it's going to get popular.
Yeah, what are you like, how do you, the big issue that kind of sungal was their marketing, right?
It got them in a lot of trouble for going, how do you, how do you want your end make sure this like kind of stays out of the high schools?
Yeah, I mean, there's a few things like, I mean, probably the most helpful is that tobacco is now a 21 plus product nationally in the United States.
That wasn't the case during the jewel like rise, which is kind of crazy that you could be in high school as a senior, go out, get a pack of cigarettes and like be smoking on your lunch break, which is crazy.
But now everything's 21 plus.
So you need a true like fake ID if you're going to get these.
It's very, very difficult.
Also age verification processes have gotten a lot better online.
And then also, I mean, these products are to your point, like they're more discrete.
It's less like, oh, you're at a party.
You see someone using the jewel.
They look cool.
It doesn't have that same.
It's a little bit more of an intimate experience.
But then also just the marketing is really important, just knowing where to actually promote.
You know, we focus on just anyone with an older millennial audience, people who are typically, they've, you know, they've gone through college.
Maybe they started smoking, maybe they started vaping.
Now they're looking for an alternative later down the line.
And we want to be there for them.
Jewel, you know, they made a bunch of mistakes early on where they were, you know, sending jewel representatives into schools, into high schools and middle schools and talking about the products.
And yeah, obviously that looks really bad in hindsight.
Yeah, last question here.
And I will warn the audience to yeah, don't, if you have never like smoked or anything, you don't use any nicotine don't grab the 12 milligram.
We've given people like at events and stuff.
I've given people like their first and a six can wreck you if you're not used to it.
So, you know, start small, understand if you're a heavy smoker or something like, six isn't going to get you.
But before I let you go, first of all, where do people find the product and any other new flavors, anything coming out on the market?
Yeah, so everything's available at Lucy dot CEO or you can just search Lucy nicotine on Google.
We're also in a bunch of stores, really big in New York right now and trying to expand nationally and eventually globally.
Not many new products coming to market because of the way the FDA is structured.
Basically, you had to launch your product before August 8, 2016.
There were some other days, but basically, if you're not already selling, you can't really start a new company.
You can't really start a new product.
You have to wait for the FDA to get approval.
So, not much on that front.
We're really just trying to, we think we have the best product in the category.
We think we have a really great product portfolio with the pouches.
We have strong, we have strong versions, weak versions, different flavors.
We have multiple mint flavors.
So, there's a lot that we can do with the portfolio that we have.
The name of the game right now is just getting into every store in America.
There's something like 275 ,000 stores that sell nicotine products.
I think we're in a couple thousand of those.
We got a long way to go.
So, yeah, that's exciting times.
Thank you so much for the samples.
Thank you for coming on the show and thank you for talking about this world.
Take care.
Yeah, you too.
Bye.
Take it easy.
All right.
Here's a company out there called Shan GTT and they have made this sleeper.
Take a look at it right here.
This goes on the top of your box truck.
Doesn't look that secure.
People have a lot of comments about this one.
First of all, the way you get in it is a little, it's a little sus.
They're going to show us once they go inside the vehicle.
But basically what we're looking at for you audio viewers is a yellow box truck and they take this sleeper capsule and they mount it to the top of your vehicle.
And this particular truck has a moonroof or a sunroof.
This guy just climbs up in his sunroof and he goes up into the sleeper.
But there's a lot of issues with this thing.
First of all, it does not look like this is connected to any age vac or anything.
So it looks like a gigantic oven.
I'm not sure how comfortable it would be because you got to replace that floorboard.
It doesn't look like it would be that easy to store a mattress or anything up there.
I'm not really sure what you would use this for.
Like definitely not team drivers.
You wouldn't want to drive down the road with someone to sleep up in there.
Would you?
I don't think so.
Maybe if you were driving cross country, you're renting a U -Haul.
You didn't want to stop at a hotel and you thought maybe you're going through Yellowstone.
I don't really understand the point.
But either way, Shanxi has it.
Oh, Curtis says wouldn't be smart to sleep in the top bunk.
Well, the truck is driving down the road.
I believe it's legal.
Wow.
You know, it smells crazy up there.
That's Reaper Capital.
Ken Benson says I do not care for team driving a lot.
Don't don't record us.
So that's real old school.
Massey Griffin.
I hope it's air conditioned.
Same here.
And Samuel Hydeberg says I will not sleep in the pod.
By the way, go to what the truck gear .com gets your shirts at flip flops, whatever you want to show that right there.
Get your shirts, get your hats, get your flip flops, what truck gear .com skin, the QR code actually rate the strap work shirts should be out this Friday.
I think as long as me and the designer agree on the design by then should have been there for you.
But right now let's find out.
Let's find out all about NASCAR hauling with Joe Anderson, Holler driver of number 24 Chevrolet Camaro.
ZL1 Joe.
Hey, great to see you.
Good man.
How are you doing?
Thanks for having me on here.
When you were getting ready in the green room, I kind of got a little bit of a look at your facility as I was talking to other guests.
Like I saw you in a nice truck outside.
Where are you hanging out today?
Yeah, I'm currently inside our lounge right now with the trailer.
I was outside.
I had the trailer in the background and it was cool, but it was a little hard of hearing.
So I rushed myself in here to get set up.
Are you so are you at a race track today?
Are you guys setting up for something?
Yep, currently we are in Iowa Speedway right now.
We're inside the garage.
We had a swap out trailer coming yesterday.
We got another one coming tomorrow morning that we'll swap over the cars and some more parts and some fun stuff.
Joe, for people who haven't met you before, how long have you been driving and how long have you been pulling NASCAR cars?
Currently, I'm 18 years with a CDL and I've been doing at this level with NASCAR for about seven years.
Wow, you know, a lot of drivers out there.
They always see when I like post videos of NASCAR because you guys have the coolest trailers.
And when I post them, a lot of drivers say I would love to do that, but they make it sound like it's not that easy to just like transition from OTR over to NASCAR. How did you get over to this side?
Well, I've been involved in racing pretty much whole life.
I started racing when I was 13.
I worked for a company that had a race hauler and I just wanted to drive it.
I didn't care too much about driving other normal trucks.
I wanted to drive a race hauler.
They were the coolest ones, the shiniest ones.
They were just awesome and they had race cars.
So yeah, I got involved with a lay model team in California and I wanted to drive the truck.
I wanted to make more money and that's how I got involved there.
And then kind of just luck.
Man, I moved to North Carolina, gone bald with NASCAR again and I got hired with an amazing team.
And it just took off from there.
I mean, there's a lot of work involved being a NASCAR hauler driver.
I mean, driving the truck is one of the smallest pieces of it.
And there's a lot, a lot of hats.
You wear me to truck driver here.
Yeah, I mean, I mentioned those trailers and the equipment is quite a bit different.
What is like the day in the life of a NASCAR hauler like today?
What do you got to be doing?
This morning we woke up, came down here, turned down the generator of the truck.
You know, we want to keep the refrigerator and all the food and whatnot cold.
We check the equipment, made sure the truck was washed and looks presentable.
And just preparing for the weekend, preparing what we got to do.
I look over notes of what where we go through inspection lines, what time practice times around the race times, qualifying, just making sure we have everything that we need.
Like tomorrow morning, we know that the swap out truck is coming.
So we've got to be prepared for that.
We're going to unload our trailer.
We're going to go through everything that we have, restock it.
Just a complete turnover for the next following event.
For the following event, what kind of planning goes in for the drive?
Like how long?
I imagine it can vary.
It really depends on the race track, but you have to go load up the car and everything.
How do you like sort of route plan for all that?
Well, one, we definitely looked over to see how the weather is going to be wherever we're going.
For example, we're in our second or a third weekend of a three week getaway.
We started off going to St. Louis, Missouri for the gateway race.
We drove straight there and then we drove from there to Sonoma, Sonoma to here.
So just route planning.
We look ahead to see how the weather is see if there's any road conditions that we need to worry about and construction zones.
Anything that's shut down.
But we just check on the phone.
See how it is.
We talked to the other, the other hauler drivers.
If there's anything that we need to know, I mean, pretty straightforward.
Or a lot of the hauler drivers are they sort of race car lovers.
They had an initial passion for that plus trucking.
Is that most of you guys?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
A lot of them just started out being a mechanic or they worked on the car.
They've been around it and needed a hauler driver.
I know how to do it.
I'll jump in and get it and then they just end up becoming the hauler driver or that's kind of how I was.
I was a mechanic and I raised cars myself.
And then it's just like, wow, I know how to do it.
Let me do it and then and got it.
But yeah.
How do those trailers work?
If you guys can roll those videos again, we saw it being, you know, you're pushing the car onto there and it's getting raised up and everything.
Tell us a little bit a little bit about the inside of that thing.
So, yeah, we have a complete lift gate.
It raises the car.
We haul two cars up on top.
The whole bottom is filled with cabinets.
We have a hallway down the middle.
Both sides there's cabinets from.
You know, six to seven feet tall and then we have some normal just regular cabinets smaller different sizes.
We have lockers for our kid crew guys lockers for the road crew guys.
We haul all our radios in there.
There's carts in there full of different equipment.
We have everything to rebuild the car pretty much in case because I mean, this is our shop away from the shop.
So we have everything that we need in case of any scenario.
Down the center of the trailer, we haul different cars that we pull out.
We have a practice qualifying car.
I have a engine tuners mechanic box.
I got coolers.
I got a giant pit or a toolbox that goes in the garage.
Fuel cans.
We carry everything that we need where I'm currently sitting now in the lounge is the.
I want to say it's where the crew chief and our engineers sit and they can they can talk back to the home base in North Carolina.
Talk to the shop there.
They have all their computer screens.
They got all their.
They got data.
They got weather.
They it's a whole command center away from the shop.
Well, you have a favorite track to deliver to or is there one that particularly sticks out to you?
I mean, I like so many.
I grew up watching NASCAR as a kid.
So I mean, I've seen all the tracks and now to see him here in person.
But I think the coolest one is rolling into Daytona just because of its history and what it is.
Daytona is really cool.
I really love the small tracks.
I like getting into Martinsville and Bristol just because of how tight they are and how small and then you feel like you're just in a little colosseum.
Do they do they let you take the, you know, the relay car out at all or do you got to use your own.
Oh, yeah, they got it.
The car itself, man.
I wish I'd be awesome.
But yeah, they know better.
They know better to not let us do that, especially me.
No, when race goes on, you're a big race fan.
Do they do you get to watch the race?
Do you get to enjoy 80 some catering or is it all hands on deck?
You're super busy.
It's very stressful.
It's pretty much all hands on deck during our race, for sure.
And even if we're there during the weekend, there's another race going on.
We're busy doing something.
We're either going through a technical inspection.
We're getting ready for a practice or a qualifying event.
So we're going over the car or I'm getting stuff ready inside the trailer.
Or what's about to happen.
But sometimes, yeah, there are some moments where we can get away and go stand and subtract and see what's going on.
Watch them.
We got a couple hours of that weekend.
Well, very cool.
Maybe you'll deliver the relay car in September.
We're doing the hall of fame for them.
Anyone out there, you can nominate your drivers nominations are open.
If you get that QR code, too, there's one you can scan.
It's the relay payments .com slash hall of fame and go there directly or you can scan that QR code.
Nominate your drivers.
They win a NASCAR experience.
They get to come down to the track.
They'll get to meet the NASCAR drivers like you.
They'll get to watch the race.
Sit in the car, take some pictures.
It's really cool.
It's free to enter too.
And all you really just doing is saying, hey, recognize my drivers.
And I'm one of the judges.
So if you got a great driver, you know, there's a good chance you might get selected.
Are you excited for this hall of fame?
Yeah, man.
It's awesome.
Jeff Gordon, our chairman.
He's going to be one of the judges also.
That's really cool.
And I remember last year when we had this event go on and I got to meet the drivers, the winners of the contest.
And they're super cool to talk to you.
Got to meet them, their families.
We showed them the inside of the truck took them on a whole tour of the garage area of the trailers, all the race cars, met the drivers.
It was a really cool experience that they get to get.
And it's not anything that you can purchase.
And yeah, it's it's going to be awesome.
Well, very cool.
People want to learn more about the race team.
Where do I send them to?
If you want to learn more about the race team, you can go to Hendrick Motorsports .com.
You can also visit William Byron .com.
There's a lot of information on there.
Our social media on Instagram, Twitter, my mom on there.
Good start is Hendrick Motorsports .com.
Hendrick Motorsports .com.
Well, hey, a little cabel for you and the team.
Congratulations and have a great race season.
And I look forward to September when this event all comes together.
Thanks for stopping by today.
Thank you, man.
I appreciate it.
Thank you for having me on here.
Take it easy.
All right.
People go get yourself a what the truck shared hat.
We got special Miami logo show that QR code.
What the truck gear?
.com scan the QR code.
Get your shirts.
Get your hats.
Get your crop tops for the ladies.
One of our best sellers.
By the way, and congratulations to Abby.
By the way, Abby, Evan Brittle.
She won the cabel contest.
And she got a free shirt from the store for doing so.
So I sent her one.
Also, if you send in your dogs, you got office dog truck dogs, something like that.
Send it to me to do her at freightwaves .com or catch me on social media at Timothy Duneer.
We're going to give someone a free shirt to for featuring your pets and your pets will be featured right on this very show.
And they might arrive by mail just like this.
Take a look at this delivery driver.
Must not have seen it there.
Ring doorbell comes.
My kids like I have a ring doorbell.
But whenever mail comes, the kids are like staring out the window anyway, especially down here in the southeast.
They get a school a little bit early.
I don't know.
He probably got busted over that one.
All right, let's drop it.
We got to tip the band.
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All right.
Let's bring up our next is it is Parker.
Meeks.
He is a CEO over at Hyzon Parker.
Good to see you.
Agent of great scene.
You as always.
Thanks for having me on.
Now you know what's interesting.
Your team reached out and you're like, Hey, we got a new announcement.
Not sure if you be interested or not.
And it was around a garbage truck a dump truck.
And I'm like, you know what?
I've never actually featured them.
I don't even know that much about that market or anything.
Tell me all about it.
So I said, send Parker.
My way.
What is the big news about this partnership that you have now with new way trucks?
So we're really really thrilled to have in May brought for market with new way.
The first fuel cell garbage truck north America.
This is a revolutionary vehicle that we are confident is going to help to decarbonize a use case that is in everyone's neighborhood.
Just like that.
Unfortunate postal vehicle that you just showed slimming into that car garbage trucks are in our neighborhoods every every week.
Right.
And unfortunately, even CNG has got some emissions to it.
It's got a lot of noise.
And we're proud to have brought with new way.
The first use of garbage truck to market.
It's going to start trials on the west coast very, very soon.
The market dooner is is actually quite some stage of 120 ,000 garbage trucks on roads in North America and a big demand for zero emission solutions driven by California to start to really start to decarbonize its use case that affects all of us every every week.
How is like most garbage like who buys the fleets for garbage trucks is in most like I know my town does it.
But when I lived in my other town in Massachusetts, I had to use like waste management, for example, because there was no like public tax.
Right.
Refuse like how does that market work?
Yeah, so so what you have for the bulk of the market, you have both private and public waste haulers, but the largest place typically are private waste haulers who are both managing and hauling waste directly.
For the Roman fields, but also contracting through cities and counties.
So just like your experience, a lot of California, you've got major cities and counties contracting refuse services.
And they're now mandating in these RF fees zero emission vehicles as part of their fleet solution for the customers by as soon as 2026 2027.
So what these major refuse fleets, some of which are 20 ,000 plus trucks of peace when you look at the largest refuse fleets in the US are now having to incorporate zero emission trucks.
And their fleets, as soon as two to three years from now, to be able to win these big contracts out out out west and unfortunately battery electric garbage trucks have been in operation for some time.
And most of them can't do more than a half days work.
Very cool.
I think we have a picture of the truck as well.
It's pretty it's pretty fancy.
Look, but let me have what's the performance on this thing?
Do are we sacrifice anything with FCEV can run all day like what are some of the specs?
So that's what's most exciting.
Honestly, we were we're highly confident in the truck before we we ran the sister truck to this truck in Australia.
The first truck launched near Sydney, 18 % grades, 1200 household bin lifts in a single day, very challenging use case.
That's the work that combustion engines do today.
Generally, that truck in Australia ran four months unconstrained with the fifth largest waste fleet in the world.
Rebond is running it with no failures.
No one plans down time the same operating cost is diesel without subsidy, which is important and the ability to do all that work without having to refuel.
So we answer the question.
We think yes, fuel cell EV hyzon struck and do the worth the combustion does no compromises.
We expect when the truck in the US is commercialized, it will have no payload penalty, which is critical because the reason why the battery trucks are struggling today can only do about half the work.
There's up to a 40 % payload penalty, meaning they can carry 40 % less trash than a combustion truck because of the weight of those heavy batteries, whereas we expect our truck to have zero payload penalty.
Which is why we're confident it can do the work that combustion can do, which we look forward to proving it starting out out to West, very, very simple.
You know, one of the issues obviously with the battery side of this is obviously the charging.
And I think that a lot of like people who are really into EV, they don't always understand utilization, especially of slip seated vehicle shared vehicles and that charging to like, yeah, okay, you can say it takes an hour to fast charge.
But if there's a line, then it takes an hour plus everyone in line that you're behind.
What is the fueling like how fast can we fuel one of these up?
So we expect these to put us quickest 10 minutes, right?
Because when you look at the consumption, these garbage trucks actually use less fuel in a day than a classic truck.
So our our trial program in Australia, the truck average is using about 20 to 22 kilos per day.
We expect that to refuel in as quick as eight to 10 minutes, right?
So to your point, not only does it feel quickly, most of these large refuse fleets are used to using C and G and collecting that on site.
You can produce hydrogen from waste methane or from biomass.
So what it's needed a better environment than class eight for fuel adoption.
These are fleets that are used to collecting their own fuel, managing on site, using compressed gases.
So we truly do believe everything is in place customers in from an in customer standpoint that what this in the season counties fleets that are eager to adopt it to win those contracts and to start to decarbonize.
And a use case that has a fueling time and a fuel availability and a familiarity with compressed gases that makes this all likely go faster.
Our first steps to prove it starting with these trials in California soon.
Now how long do you plan to run the trials for?
So typical trials can be as short as two weeks and we've seen that in the classic market as well.
Some fleets are going to want to run multiple trials, two weeks here, two weeks there to test different use cases are both simple.
We want to put that truck in operation, unconstrained to prove what it can't, it can't do to our customer and and to us.
So, you know, what's what's what's great about these fleets, they see the need for us to rotate this asset around just to voice the way the market.
And we think two week, two to four week trials are enough for us to get that proof point.
Hope again to a first contract start that process of a multi year scale up.
Very cool.
So when we talk about scaling up to so availability, like when we think about this market sort of maturing the prospect like me here in Chattanooga Tennessee, hey, maybe one day a hydrogen garbage truck will pull up.
What is sort of that timeline?
It can be the same as semi trucks.
It's a little bit different, but the infrastructure side is sort of similar.
They're similar challenges.
It is.
No, look, I think, first of all, the classic market set up to run and a garbage truck market out west of California because there's both fuel subsidy and there's truck subsidy, right?
So in places like Tennessee or Texas.
What's missing typically is assuming 45 V does come through and that is effective.
That's the production tax credit for hydrogen in the inflation production act.
You know, we're still missing that truck subsidy.
So our goal is to get the cost of truck down low enough over time when that subsidy will be less necessary.
But what's what's great is most states do have some level of a Volkswagen fund program that has environmental money for generation trucks.
There are some state funds as well that can promote this.
And I'm not sure about Tennessee, but many states were able to find a pocket, a pocket of money that will be pure that with fuel subsidy that's coming from from from 45 V and the fact your point that fuel is generally possible to be produced from these landfill locations.
We actually think that, you know, refuse will scale a bit behind class eight to start.
We're talking about contracts this year, first delivery starting next year.
But once this gets going, our costs will come down.
We have state money that's growing across the country.
And then we're able to actually scale refuse potentially faster in the out years of the decade because fuel available.
It should be easier from a landfill perspective.
Now, if someone wanted to see one of these in person, aside from the event you were just at, are they going to be out anywhere soon?
So if you do live in the Bay Area or something California or even in Edmonton, Canada, the truck will be running in trials and operations.
So if you're lucky enough to live in some of these areas, you may actually haven't pick up from your house on the course of the next the next next few months.
We are looking to future the truck and sort of it's coming up.
So we'll post that on our on our website.
And we're eager to show this to communities, to customers and partners.
So keep an eye out for us in California, Canada on the roads.
And we'll look forward to announcing where we're going to feature at any upcoming events.
Now Parker in Boston, whenever the, you know, the Celtics, the Red Sox, the Patriots win.
We do big duck boat parades out there.
Maybe out in Edmonton.
If they win that Stanley Cup, you could do like a big fuel cell EV trash, trash parade with all the guys on top.
I don't know if they love it, but it would be cool.
Where can they learn more?
I love it.
Highs on dot com.
Where do I send them to?
Absolutely.
Follow me on LinkedIn, Parker makes go to our website, every day, every dot highs on fuel cell dot com.
And keep an eye out for us.
We're announcing our presentation, various events across the country.
We look forward to showing you our trucks and really showing the decarbonizations ready to us start now with our great fuel cell technology.
Well, hey Parker, thank you so much for stopping by.
Take care.
Friday on the show, when we come back, it's the driver health forum with Dr. Mark Manero from OffShift.
We got Trucker turn trainer Mike Lombard, Higher Rights Dr. Tardsimo, Truckstakes Rob Carpenter.
We got Anthony Slammer talking about telematics.
Take care.
Don't be a stranger.
